The husband --who I'll call Ben-- and I get along really well. We hit it off right away when we met. We work in the same industry, have similar personalities, and seem to find the same things interesting and funny. When we run into each other at our friends' parties, we always spend lots of time talking, catching up.
And I want to make it clear, Ben's not flirting with me. Our conversations are lighthearted, fun, and entirely G-rated. Anyone can join in.
It's different with the wife --Sharon. She's pleasant to me but a little distant. Chilly, actually. We don't seem to have that much in common and our personalities are very different. There are lots of silences when we attempt to make the smallest of small talk.
I know better than to hog the attention of another woman's husband at a party --even though it's innocent-- so I keep trying to draw her into the conversation, but it never really works. I keep trying because I don't want her to think I'm interested in anything from her husband but fun and interesting conversation.
I don't do other people's husbands. Never have. I think it's wrong…plus, what would I want with a man who cheats? I don't think a lot of wives know this about me or maybe they just don't believe me. And, in a way, why should they believe me: lots of women have affairs with married men. Just not me.
Anyway, I ran into this couple the other day at a restaurant near my house. Near theirs house, too. We're neighbors. After chatting awhile --mostly with the husband, who continued to engage me-- I suggested we all get together. Ben agreed it was a good idea and asked for my contact information. Sharon, who hadn't said much until then, strongly interjected that they could get my informtion from Toni, our mutual friend. Ben pointed out that it might be easier to get it from me since I was right there. Sharon repeated that they'd get it from Toni. I got it. Sharon's not interested.
So I guess we won't all get together. This is one of the downsides to being Spinsterlicious. Married women --some, not all-- are suspect. They don't trust us. Too bad. I'm really a nice person who doesn't want their husbands.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened. It's a little annoying because I feel like I'm being accused of something I'm not guilty of. How does one combat this? Geez?
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26 comments:
I think I probably qualify as a "Chilly Wife" because when I read this I can totally relate to how obnoxious all of this must seem to her. You latch on to her husband at a party and think you are doing her a favor by occasionally trying to rope her into a conversation when all she wants you to do is bug off. She knows her husband, perhaps he has a history of misbehaving. At the very least it's likely that she has made it very clear to him how she feels about you and your advances (however "innocent" they might be) and he knows he should politely brush you off to appease her. If she is threatened you'll never be able to do anything about it until you learn to leave them be. She's never going to open up to you as long as you latch on to her husband every time you see them.
@anonymous: i so love your comment.
we don't know whether husband has a history of misbehaving or not. but it does sound like the wife is jealous. and there's really nothing you can do about that. you could be married and your husband could be standing right next to you, and she'd still be jealous. some women don't tolerate their husbands having engaging conversations with anyone but themselves. I dare say, its a bit of a relationship insecurity.
that said, not every time its jealousy. sometimes its simply lack of common interests. another thing you cannot really fix. so I guess my suggestion would be - cut the losses on that one. its not fun and it sucks to lose a good conversation partner, but.. less headaches in a long run.
P.S. personally, I wouldn't find it - and you, obnoxious, but my relationship with my husband is that of trust, mutual respect, and understanding that we are different people with interests that not always overlap and there's nothing wrong with either one of us finding people to talk to that share interests, that we don't share between us.
I think from the wives point of view you are only interested in her man and she is just a tag-along. In my experiences with my male friends who have married I've made an extra effort to socialize with their wives girlfriends even going so far as to having girls day out. I really find a way to connect with them. There will be instances when the girlfriends are very antisocial there is nothing you can do about that just keep inviting them both out.
It seems as though you were introduced to, and acquainted with the man first, then came to be acquainted with his wife. Sadly, some people can only operate as couple-units (or perky togethers). They do not view their partner as an autonomous individual who chooses to be committed to them, but as someone who needs to be monitored and kept in check--sometimes constantly.
It may seem harmless and comfortable to share small talk with him, but you'll probably dump him in deep trouble at home.
Enjoy sharing the bon mots during public events, but don't try to establish a friendship (sadly) with him or his wife in other situations. Simply put, the wife is either very insecure and stressed, or she's simply not interested in your friendship and attention.If she arcs up about him talking to you in public, well, that's their issue and you're not responsible for how they conduct themselves in public.
All the responses were good so far. I agree that most insecure wives/girlfriends are super suspicous of unmarried women, even when it's obvious you have no romantic interest in their husband. I've found many women do monitor much of what their husbands say, and they do not like it when their man seems to be enjoying a conversation with another woman. Maybe the husband will start comparing the wife to you and begin thinking he has more fun talking to you than he ever had talking to his wife. Or like the chilly wife mentioned, maybe he misbehaves--that's something to think about. Either way, it's kind of a shame that we have to monitor ourselves so closely and not just have honest, open conversations without worrying about stuff like this....
It's the classic Single Confident Woman vs. Married Insecure Woman. I work in the sex industry. I can tell you that as soon as a man's wife or girlfriend finds out what I do for a living, they don't want their men around me period. In their view, I am trying to come on to their man just because of the industry I am in, even though I have no interest in their men on that kind of level.
The sad part is excellent, engaging conversation is hard to come by. Unfortunately, in this situation, I would tell the husband that you feel his wife is uncomfortable with you being around him. Therefore, out of respect for her, you would have to cut contact.
Trust me, in my business, a lot of contact I have with men involves just talking since they are looking for excellent, engaging conversation that they don't get at home. As I always tell my clients, open and honest communication is the key to a great relationship.
Eleanore,
In one of her posts, Anonymous made a point that I found to be an indictment of myself. If the husband has been unfaithful, then the wife has radar for any signal that reminds her of what she has gone through with the man; in that type of situation there is no getting around the chillines unless YOU step up and forge a truly strong bond with the wife. In another contextual framework (which you have so expertly described), married women have chosen not to be spinsterlicious therefore, they have no parameter by which to make a sound judgement on a woman who engages her husband with obvious ease and comfort. Many husbands and wives (too many probably) reach a point where life becomes more assumption and presumption than gregariousness, loquaciousness and flirtatiousness. So your neighbor might reach out to you(and/or her husband)to have a conversation about how she feels regarding the interplay between you and her husband. She might also have a chat with a therapist to find out if she has some unusual, deeply rooted psychological issue(s).
Hate to say it, spinsterlicious, but I couldn't help but be a little compassionate for the insecure wife. It seems to me that their marriage is troubled. If you have tons in common with him and little in common with her, then I would surmise that they might not have much in common with each other and the marriage might be on the skids. All the more reason for her to view you as suspect. As I read your post, I couldn't help but think that this was the perfect guy for you but he happens to be married. I know that's not what you think or meant to convey, but it was what I was thinking while reading your story.
Well if I remember correctly didn't you say you would have dinner with a married man? Maybe the wife and others are a little confused by what appears to be double talk.
This is why I love doing this blog. It's been interesting and helpful to hear the different takes on the situation. Am especially glad at the Wives who've weighed in, who are seeing it from a completely different perspective. I'm not "latching" on to her husband but apparently some see it that way. You all have helped me see that she's insecure --maybe about herself and maybe about their marriage-- but it's not really that much about me. I'm less annoyed at her now, and feeling kinda sorry for her (not that she wants that).
@Anonymous. There's no double talk. Of course I would have dinner with a married man. There's nothing. wrong. with. that. I can't help the insecurities in someone's marriage. My conscious is clear. Dinner...conversation. They're all above board.
Totally sympathise with Eleanore on this one, but also the chilly wife. I'm permanently single, and there are at least 2 married men who I frequently communicate with, and socialise with, for the same reason. One of them - after some 13 years of being friends with him and his wife - cut me off recently and I no longer hear from him. I suspect it's because he crossed the line at Christmas, ie, got drunk and hit on me at the Christmas party, and then told his wife he did so, apparently thinking she'd find that super hilarious. Clearly, the most tolerant woman on Earth had finally had a gutful. Still, I maintain he's the bad guy here, not me. She knows I've never been a threat, she knows her husband looks like Alfred E. Neuman with a monster beer gut and I'd never actually flirt with him, and they've always been broadminded anyway. It's a pity it's come to that, but things are different for them these days. They're no longer young swingers - they have young kids and they're both maturing at a faster pace than he is. I've lost a friend here, but I say fair cop. Wifey's the priority in that relationship, always will be. Just wish I could meet more females I could relate to. My only solution is to do what I've been doing since time immemorial - hanging out with gay men. Never had any issues there...
I hate to say it but I am sick and tired of coddling insecure women, and men for that matter. I feel that as long as my social intentions are pure, then I can interact with whomever I choose and if their significant other has issues, even after I have continually tried to engage the "other half" in the conversation, then that is their issue.
We spend so much time worrying about other's emotional hang-ups - way beyond respecting boundaries and relationships - that we allow those others to continue to wallow in those issues.
I will continue to be friends with men of all marital states, regardless of their wives mental states. Of course I would never do anything to intentionally piss them off, but I am not going to cower or miss out on enjoying time with my friends because of others issues.
Sorry to all those insecure wives, but I have been in relationships where I had problems with my man conversing with another woman and I finally (thankfully)realized that the problems were related to my own issues and no matter how many women avoided my boyfriend, my issues never went away until I addressed them.
So ladies, address the issues and own your reactions to things in your life and don't blame others for the emotional upwelling you experience.
I don't think you can control it. It's an issue of the wife's insecurity if she thinks her husband will cheat on her.
Luckily, I've never had to deal with this, because most of my r/l friends are single, and I look like I'm about 22 or 23, so people probably assume I just haven't found someone to "settle down" with yet, I'm still young, there's lots of time, blah blah blah. Little do they know I'm actually 35, I might never get married, and that doesn't really bother me. lol
I have had a male friend of mine for 45 years we grew up together (I am 50 years old) When he would meet other girls and start to date them and introduce me to them some of them could not handle it some could. I finally introduced him to a friend of mine and they hit it off and have been married for 15 years now and have 2 children. Some women can handle their husband's having women "friends" in their lives and some can not. I personally could. Unless you gave me a REASON NOT to trust you I do not have a issue with you talking to other women.
I get you. Although I don't have that often I do get it from some women. I usually laugh because I think cheating is nasty and disgusting. I have seen it ruin peoples lives so I am not interested but some women think that if you are freindly to their husbands, you want him. Ew! F' no! That is some disgusting crap! I think the wife is obviously intimidated by you. Probably doesnt understand your lifestyle and thinks you are a threat. Really stupid but unfortunatly true. When this happens to me, I always roll my eyes and walk away, parting from the conversation. I can't be bothered with that stuff and if I have to drop a friend, male, for his wife, so be it because she is way more important than me and I have no desire to ever come btwn anyone.
But, then again, I had this same thing happen to my parents.
Let's face it, people are threatened by single women. Especially other women. There's still an idea that they are outside the 'norms' of society, and therefore an unknown quantity (danger!).
There's also a ridiculous perception out there that single women are all 'desperate' for a partner (or just a shag) - which makes things really difficult when you are in situations where you are surrounded by couples.
I find it's best to engage the woman first, or approach them both together; and if it's just the two of you, make it abundantly clear that you're not flirting (keeping a distance, not laughing too much, not gazing at him the whole time). It's just common sense not to hog his time and attention, so keep it moving. Maybe invite the couple over for dinner so that you can reassure her that you're not a husband-snatcher.
Single women shouldn't be confined to social outings with only other single women - life is too short to restrict your social circle based on other people's insecurities.
On another note: 'Chilly Wife' - your jealousy is clearly holding you (and your husband) back. There's either good reason for it (he's cheated in the past) or it is your neurosis - in which case, you should get help for YOUR problem and stop behaving like an emotionally immature teenager.
OR COULD IT BE THAT MAYBE PERHAPS CHILLY WIFE AND YOU MAYBE HAD A PAST FROM WAY BACK. THERE ARE ALOT OF DIFFERENT SCENARIOS, AND ALTHOUGH VERY MANY SIMPLE SOLUTIONS, I THINK CHILLY WIFE SHOULD TAKE IT UPON HERSELF TO APPROACH YOU AND SPILL WHATEVER SHE HAS TO SPILL. I WILL BE SINGLE TILL THE DAY I DIE AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING THRU. GROWING UP I NEVER MADE FRIENDS WITH GIRLS, BECAUSE I KNOW HOW THEY CAN GET, UNTIL RECENTLY I DID, NEEDLESS TO SAY THAT IS WHY I NEVER HAD GIRLFRIENDS GROWNING UP!! CUZ THEY ARE INSECURE, AND THAT IS NOT ATTRACTIVE, AND INSECURITIES LEAD TO ALOT OF UNNECESSARY BS!! SO MAYBE ITS NOT THAT YOU ARE A SINGLE HOT WOMAN, MAYBE ITS JUST THAT YOU TWO HAVE A HISTORY THAT YOU JUST DON'T REMEMBER!!
It is for this reason that I don't befriend married men, and don't have close friendships with married people in general. Too much drama for me! Besides, we don't know as someone else said what type of relationship is really going on between the husband and wife to understand why they act the way they do. If the wife and I don't FIRST hit it off to where we can have a comfortable and friendly relationship, then forget it. Anything that I have to communicate to her husband must come through the wife. It's just being respectful of both parties and not even allowing the "appearance" of something looking like what it is not.
I know and love married couples and would not think of befriending a married man. We have no idea of what happens behind closed doors. Usually the wives have darn good reasons for being chilly that we don't even know.
I love Elenanor but she might be clueless and selfish about this topic. Put yourself in the shoes of a wife...would you want your hubby to friendship with a hot fit well to do single lady. Methinks not.
And...I am single and I was married so I know both sides of the coin. Some MM talk smack behind closed doors in order to get the wife jealous thus she appears as a chilly wife.
How bout...cheating husbands? Passive aggressive husbands?
Let me tell you...when I remarry my hubby WILL NOT have single female friends, why invite fleas to jump on you?
I kinda get it. Since I am now husbandless I don't catch up with couples that "we" used to catch up with. Bizarre, now I catch up as a single person, with the female I was friends with. Bizarreness.
Guess I'm threatening?
If you have tried to befriend the wife and she is still chilly, I would say drop both of them. I usually will not befriend a married man unless I received a warm reception from both the husband and wife and if the wife doesn't like me than I'm cutting them both off. LOL. The wife might be insecure because the husband has/is cheating, but some women who are insecure in their marriages because they are the one that is cheating. Also attractive women single or not always gets labeled a whore. Trust me if you were frumpy and dumpy she could care less if you talked to her husband. She might even have ditched the both of you at the party. LOL.
Wow! This topic sure generated alot of traffic. Lots of interesting views but the one I didn't like is the constant calling the wife "insecure." Just because you are not interested in holding conversations with your husbands female friends does not necessarily mean you are insecure. There are many reasons, maybe she don't like you or not interested in the comraderie or there could be 99 other reasons. I don't like everyone I meet so why should a wife like everyone she meets thru her husband. She should get to pick and choose and not be labeled. Some of my husbands female friends I liked and joined in and some I didn't and the reasons too many to name.
Your question was, "How does one combat this?" The simple answer is, you don't. Why? There are plenty of wives who aren't threatened by their husbands chit chatting with another woman. The hard, cold fact is that the wife doesn't want to engage in much conversation and she clearly doesn't want her husband to engage in conversation with you so next time you see them, how about you just keep it brief and make no suggestions to get together? I wouldn't even give it/them another thought...
I've recently been put in the position of becoming the "chilly wife". I have no problem with my husband being friends with single females, catching up for the occasional coffee without me is fine. I did however, have to draw a line when a single female friend (someone I thought was my friend too) got very angry at me and accused me of labelling her a slut because I was honest about my feelings that I was NOT comfortable with my husband having a 4 day sleep-over at her house while he is away from me and our children for work. Honestly, if I were in her position, I would respect that there are some boundaries of decent and ethical conduct with married men that should just not be crossed. I also acknowledged that there were insecurity issues on my part that had nothing to do with her and that I needed to deal with myself - issues that some careless things my husband had said had fueled. I don't think this other single woman is a slut or a whore, but I do find the idea of her spending 4 nights with my husband threatening - she is attractive and she has had a sexual relationship with him before he met me. I am so disappointed that she could not even have the compassion to understand things from my perspective, just played victim while never considering the inappropriateness of having married men over for sleep-overs and then getting shitty when their wives are not OK with it! I'm sad, because I thought she was my friend too, obviously not as she clearly does not respect me or the boundaries around my marriage.
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